Paranoid Thoughts are Common in the General Public
A virtual reality Underground (subway) ride has been used by UK researchers to reveal the extent that paranoia occurs in the general public. This research is interesting to us at schizophrenia.com because it highlights that many symptoms of schizophrenia are simply extreme versions of common thoughts and behaviors in society.
The research, funded by the Wellcome Trust in England, demonstrates that suspicious or paranoid thoughts are much more common in the general population than was previously thought and that they are almost as common as anxiety and depression.
Until now, researchers have been unable to study paranoia (exaggerated fears about threats from others) in laboratory settings, instead relying on questionnaires, which can be inaccurate. A collaboration led by Dr Daniel Freeman, a Wellcome Trust researcher at the Institute of Psychiatry, King's College London, has developed a computer simulation to study paranoid thoughts.
"Paranoid thoughts are often triggered by ambiguous events such as people looking in one's direction or hearing laughter in a room but it is very difficult to recreate such social interactions," says Dr Freeman. "Virtual reality allows us to do just that, to look at how different people interpret exactly the same social situation. It is a uniquely powerful method to detect those liable to misinterpret other people."
Wearing virtual reality headsets, 200 volunteers broadly representative of the general population walked around a virtual London Underground carriage in a four-minute journey between station stops. The carriage contained neutral computer people (avatars) that breathed, looked around and sometimes met the gaze of the participants. One avatar read a newspaper; another would occasionally smile if looked at. A soundtrack of a train carriage was played.
Dr Freeman and colleagues found that the participants interpreted the same computer characters very differently. The most common reaction was to find the virtual reality characters friendly or neutral, but almost 40 per cent of the participants experienced at least one paranoid thought. The participants were extensively assessed before entering the train ride, and it was found that those who were anxious, worried, focused on the worst-case scenarios and had low self-esteem were the most likely to have paranoid thoughts. The results of the study are published today in the 'British Journal of Psychiatry'.
Comments about the virtual reality characters by participants who experienced paranoid thoughts included:
* "There was a guy spooking me out - tried to get away from him. Didn't like his face. I'm sure he looked at me more than a couple of times though might be imagining it."
* "A girl kept moving her hand. Looked like she was a pickpocket and would pass it to the person standing opposite her."
* "Felt trapped between two men in the doorway. As a woman I'm a lot more suspicious of men. Didn't like the close proximity of the men. The guy opposite may have had sexual intent, manipulation or whatever."
* "There's something dodgy about one guy. Like he was about to do something - assault someone, plant a bomb, say something not nice to me, be aggressive."
"In the past, only those with a severe mental illness were thought to experience paranoid thoughts, but now we know that this is simply not the case," says Dr Freeman. "About one-third of the general population regularly experiences persecutory thoughts. This shouldn't be surprising. At the heart of all social interactions is a vital judgment whether to trust or mistrust, but it is a judgement that is error-prone. We are more likely to make paranoid errors if we are anxious, ruminate and have had bad experiences from others in the past."
Dr Freeman believes that paranoid thoughts are more likely to develop in settings such as on public transport, where people can feel trapped and observed, and can't hear what others are saying. People who feared terrorism on the Underground tended to report more paranoid thoughts in the virtual train, possibly reflecting the after-effects of the London bombings on 7 July 2005. However, the researchers also found that people who regularly used the Underground experienced less paranoid thoughts in the virtual train.
"Paranoid thinking is a topic of national discussion given increasing public attention to threats such as terrorism," says Dr Freeman. "It sometimes seems as if the one thing that unites the diverse peoples of the world is our fear of one another. Worries about other people are so common that they seem to be an essential - if unwelcome - part of what it means to be human."
Paranoia is increasingly being treated using cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT). Dr Freeman believes that in the future virtual reality may be used as a tool in clinical assessment and be incorporated into CBT interventions for paranoia, allowing patients to test out their fears in virtual worlds.
Source: Welcome Trust
Research Paper Source: Virtual reality study of paranoid thinking in the general population
Related Reading:
New Book: "Overcoming Paranoid and Suspicious Thoughts"
CBT for Schizophrenia - Interview with Experts
Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for Schizophrenia - List of US Providers
Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and Schizophrenia
Posted by szadmin at April 2, 2008 07:32 PM
More Information on
Schizophrenia Symptoms
In todays world one has to be vigilant at the public places. Its not the same as it used
to be 40yrs ago. If its the public place
we are talking about, should one not be alert
and anticipate? Would one call that paranoia
in general population?
I would probably ignore but remain vigilant just
because the world is different now.
Posted by: Jena at April 3, 2008 09:55 AM
To me paranoia is really bad an when you start to have paranoid thoughts its a very hard cycle to stop.
I think its pretty common because people have spoken to me about having paraniod thoughts because they know i have been in hospital.
Posted by: terratag at April 3, 2008 10:59 AM
Is this part of the plan to try and make sufferers feel more like 'normal' people?
Sad and cynical in my view. And why is the Institute of Psychiatry researching such projects? Also any research funded by a drug company is suspect surely? Or am I just paranoid?
Talk about spending time and money on the B..... obvious!
Posted by: sheila at April 5, 2008 02:54 AM
Yah i do not see the point in researching things like this. In the write situations anyone can become really god damn paranoid and psychotic. Their is a good old Russian astronaut test, i think it was nicknamed 'The box' and the testes (yes as in testicles :P) had to stay inside this room that was without light for as long as possible and many of them lost their minds completely and subsequently failed their tests. The longest recorded time was 4 days, without a break down, and i think this particular Russian can from the North so he was accustomed to long hours without light during the winter time.
And back to the subject most psychiatrists are really dim, I have never met one that never understood the full extent to how much they depend on drugs and company executives who have various symptoms of schizophrenia themselves.
And also it is normal to hallucinate, everybody does it, its also called dreaming... So why not medicate all of mankind!
Posted by: Max at April 5, 2008 04:04 AM
Damn typos i meant right! not write! I guess i need more sleep...
Posted by: Max at April 5, 2008 04:50 AM
With the socially authoritarian government we have here in the UK there is very good cause for paranoia even if you are not. by nature, usually prone to paranoia.
Societies disadvantaged have the most to fear . Increasingly the British government seeks to harass and frighten and demonise the mentally ill.
With the economic situation due to get worse we along with other disadvantaged groups will be further scapegoated and demonised.
There is much reason to be frightened and paranoid. The barbarians hold the keys to the kingdom and civilisation is going to hell in a hand basket.
Posted by: Tim at April 5, 2008 11:13 AM
Yes, we are the Jews of the 21st century... And oddly enough I am Jewish...
Posted by: Max at April 5, 2008 01:38 PM
I agree that this study is a pure waste. What this study reveals is a normal vigilant state of human mind that belongs to psychology instead of psychiatry. Paranoia symptoms in schizophrenics are fundamentally different with the normal vigilant state of human mind.
Posted by: JD05 at April 5, 2008 02:38 PM
Eh i don't think they are any different if you put someone next to a psychiatrist they will eventually find something wrong. Ontop of that most of them want to treat first and diagnose later so yah they fuck up their own protocol.
Posted by: Max at April 5, 2008 03:35 PM
Some psychologists and psychiatrists, especially from anti-psychiatry camp, believe that symptoms of schizophrenia are simply extreme versions of common thoughts and behaviors in society, and thus, assume that schizophrenia is not a true illness. This is the viewpoint that I do not agree with, although a small percentage of sz cases do belong to this as a result of misdiagnosis.
Paranoia symptoms in schizophrenics are fundamentally different with the normal vigilant state of human mind. The key difference is that paranoia symptoms in sz are influenced by experience of hallucination, especially when the person has no any insight of it. When a person hears voices commenting about what he is thinking and doing; when a person has a feeling of his thought is being broadcasted or controlled … then, it is very likely he will try to find who did this to him – is it the CIA or FBI (as they are the one most likely having such an ability)?; is it the man standing by the door (his cell phone might be a remote to control the implant in my brain)? …
In my view, the main problem for psychiatry is that they don't understand which symptom of sz is primary and which is secondary. Hallucination, for instance, is primary, while paranoia and delusions are secondary. So, if you can stop the voices (hallucination), paranoia and delusions are mostly gone at the same time.
Posted by: JD05 at April 6, 2008 06:40 PM
Well you know this might seem basic to you but everyone hallucinates(not usually when they are awake though), Its called dreaming. And what exactly is a vigilant mind? I hardly think anyone is vigilant these days, and could you define a vigilant mind somewhat more so the rest of us can understand?
Actually the paranoia usually comes from experienced, real events. If you see someone obsessing about having rabies all the time, maybe they might have been attacked by a dog when they where younger. All of it has to do with a confusion between short term and long term memory, its like the two fuse together and everything becomes incomprehensible to the person experiencing the psychosis. Everything that a human experiences is real, even dreams, so I find it hard for someone to profess a vigilant mind, when the general population is more violent and less stable then the supposed sick!
Posted by: Max at April 7, 2008 12:33 PM
Hi Max, you are definitely right by saying that "everyone hallucinates" in their dreams while asleep. This is a very important understanding of "dreaming = hallucinating". So, I'm sure you will agree to my view of "hallucinations in schizophrenia are nothing but waking dreams", right?
Now, the difference between you and me is how to interpret the finding above. You probably reasoned in the following way (let me know if I'm wrong):
Since dreaming = hallucinating (in sleep)
And, everybody dreams when sleep
Conclusion: hallucinating is a normal function of human, not an illness
The problem is your conclusion. To make it easy to understanding, let's use Cataplexy as an example. Cataplexy is a sudden loss of muscle tone that leads to feelings of weakness and a loss of voluntary muscle control. Attacks can occur at any time during the waking period. The loss of muscle tone during a cataplectic episode resembles the interruption of muscle activity that naturally occurs during REM sleep. So now we have:
Since muscle paralysis in REM sleep = loss of muscle tone (in Cataplexy)
And, everybody experiences muscle paralysis in REM sleep (if not, you have a REM sleep behavior disorder)
Conclusion: Cataplexy is not an illness
I'm sure you will reject this conclusion of Cataplexy because Cataplexy is obviously an illness. In the same thinking, although it is nothing wrong to hallucinate in our dreams, it is still not right to hallucinate when we are awake. So, schizophrenia is still an illness of brain (wrong timing, just like in the Cataplexy case).
Posted by: JD05 at April 7, 2008 07:05 PM
Eh we are talking about two different illnesses... Schizophrenia is not normally recognized by neuro-scientists, catalepsy is though. Infact my NeuroDoc said i was cured and that I did not have Schizophrenia, and my psychiatrist said the exact opposite, so you seem to be blurring the lines in an attempt to profess the existence of a vigilant mind.
Secondly schizophrenia is not a neuro-degenerative disease, its a chemical imbalance in the brain, and so are dreams. In fact dreams usually program the general behavior of a person's day. So when someone is hallucinating their minds are being programmed to think via their hallucinations, and it seems that the brain is doing the right task, whether the person dreaming is awake or not. Second catalepsy is predominately genetic and schizophrenia is not(now i am going to have every little undergraduate in genetics condemn me, but feck them anyways!)
I do agree with you that the timing is off but sudden Paralysis is far off from sudden dreaming, infact it is far more disabling. And dreaming whilst awake might have evolutionary advantages such as the innate recognition of a dangerous situation. Which is seen in families of people who have this disorder, usually the parents are dysfunctional abusive child molesting pedophiles and eventually the victim/child breaks, they eventually believe that they are adopted, or that their parents are trying to kill them. Basically the mind is saying something like "run the hell away or these people will actually kill you, or make you worse!" (Remember I said usually, not always.)
Finally, the imagination is a powerful characteristic of intelligent animals. Why don't you do this little exercise with me?(read it first and then relive it in your mind. And if you can't visualize/hallucinate this then your brain might not be functioning correctly at all! :P)
Close your eyes and imagine that you are sitting on a beach. The sun is radiating warm waves of light. The sea is clear and tranquil, beautiful people are roaming naked, and a barmaid has just given you a strawberry smoothie. You place the smoothie in your hand it feels cold, and your bring it towards your lips, the aroma from the smoothie fills your nose, you now feel lightheaded, and
any worry is light years away. You drink the smoothie and the cool liquid pours down your throat, you believe that this is the closest you will ever get to heaven.
Now did you not hallucinate and visualize this little event whilst you were awake, i think the idea that this little illness was ever consider an illness led people to take extreme measures in treating it. I would be more afraid of the people who classify, as if their minds where programmed by a google technician, then someone who can actually reason as a naturalist.
Posted by: Max at April 8, 2008 09:19 AM
Usually paranoid thoughts/behaviors will come from isolation, an out of touch with reality experience. Sure one could carry these thoughts in public. But if one is carrying such paranoid thoughts they would tend to be guarded and prompt to do reality testing.
I think virtual reality is just a misunderstanding of a thoughts disorder that is hard to control or shut down.
Posted by: J D at April 8, 2008 09:44 AM
"You can't get a manic on a subway line," "The doctor don't like it says your waisting your time." "But everybody wants some..I want some to. Van Halen, Woman and Children First. HE HE
Posted by: J at April 8, 2008 03:12 PM
Hi Max, when you say schizophrenia is "a chemical imbalance in the brain", do you know that you are actually referring the imbalance of brain neuron transmitters?
Also, your example of "close your eyes and imagine that ..." is not an example of hallucination. It is called imagination (or fantasy, or day-dreaming). In imagining process, you have the full control of what you want to visualize and your brain doesn't perceive the imagines as if they are coming from any external sensory. So, imagination is a process of controlled thinking.
Hallucination, however, is a total different story. It is perceived as if they come from external sensory and you don't have the full control of what your brain will perceive. You can only influence the storyline in some way, just like in your dream while asleep.
Posted by: JD05 at April 8, 2008 07:09 PM
Actually yes i do, or well i think i do because it seems that most of the researchers are still pondering about this particular area. First it was the dopamine hypothesis, then the serotonin and dopamine hypothesis, now there is the diabetes of the brain hypothesis so you tell me which one is the true theory?...
I just do not agree that schizophrenia is anywhere near an illness. You have no control over your dreams either. Secondly not every person who experiences hallucinations believe that they are external what so ever.
You find that a large majority will tend to believe it but you will find a few odd people who are suffering from a psychosis to be very friggin aware of what is going on. When i first hallucinated i thought oh feck some fecking lunatic doctor is going to diagnose me as one of those? Was that insight? I think so... was i aware i think yes. When you are still conscious you have the ability to make rational thoughts. And you know it is pretty reasonable to believe that
these hallucinations are coming from an external source cause they are "alien" or unusual to the person who is experiencing this perceptional changes. It's only the psychiatrist that has an agenda(keeping the lay people at ease) would even consider saying that a person who is dreaming whilst awake is not aware of his illness. In fact its almost a catch twenty two situation for the patient.
Secondly day dreaming is very much akin to hallucinating, the same areas of the brain are used, and the evolution of day dreaming or even dreaming led into waking dreams, and human intelligence, which literally sprang forth from nowhere not a controlled experiment or a controlling entity and certainly not a vigilant mind.
Also i find that the imagination has nothing to do with controlled thinking some of the best art pieces, music, even equations literally appeared out of no where, much to the amazement of their inventors or discoverers.
Posted by: Max at April 9, 2008 09:26 AM
Hi Max, the saying that "schizophrenia is a chemical imbalance in the brain" is only a theory (hypothesis, assumption, belief, opinion, or best guess) whatever you like to name it. The truth is scientists have not yet found the root cause. No one knows which chemical (or neurotransmitter) is imbalance or if any.
Personally, I don't think the dopamine theory of schizophrenia is right, as sleep study revealed that brain dopamine level is actually almost the same through out the waking state, Non-REM sleep and REM sleep when dream occurs.
Posted by: JD05 at April 9, 2008 04:25 PM
Yah they can never really clarify these things. To be honest most of this type of research on this website has lots of striking similarities with ones that where done on homosexuals when that sexual persuasion was considered a disorder. So yah I find it very frustrating that researchers are even using Kraeplin's name, etc...
Posted by: Max at April 10, 2008 07:51 AM
Are those researchers MORONS? The woman who is suspicious of men on the subway is PARANOID?! Try logical! Try talking to women about how common sexual harassment and assault is on the subway! God, the public's blind eye toward ubiquitous misogyny and sexist harassment is infuriating.
Posted by: Sexism at its finest at April 21, 2008 08:50 PM
Early
Schizophrenia Screening Test
In todays world one has to be vigilant at the public places. Its not the same as it used
to be 40yrs ago. If its the public place
we are talking about, should one not be alert
and anticipate? Would one call that paranoia
in general population?
I would probably ignore but remain vigilant just
because the world is different now.
Posted by: Jena at April 3, 2008 09:55 AM
To me paranoia is really bad an when you start to have paranoid thoughts its a very hard cycle to stop.
I think its pretty common because people have spoken to me about having paraniod thoughts because they know i have been in hospital.
Posted by: terratag at April 3, 2008 10:59 AM
Is this part of the plan to try and make sufferers feel more like 'normal' people?
Sad and cynical in my view. And why is the Institute of Psychiatry researching such projects? Also any research funded by a drug company is suspect surely? Or am I just paranoid?
Talk about spending time and money on the B..... obvious!
Posted by: sheila at April 5, 2008 02:54 AM
Yah i do not see the point in researching things like this. In the write situations anyone can become really god damn paranoid and psychotic. Their is a good old Russian astronaut test, i think it was nicknamed 'The box' and the testes (yes as in testicles :P) had to stay inside this room that was without light for as long as possible and many of them lost their minds completely and subsequently failed their tests. The longest recorded time was 4 days, without a break down, and i think this particular Russian can from the North so he was accustomed to long hours without light during the winter time.
And back to the subject most psychiatrists are really dim, I have never met one that never understood the full extent to how much they depend on drugs and company executives who have various symptoms of schizophrenia themselves.
And also it is normal to hallucinate, everybody does it, its also called dreaming... So why not medicate all of mankind!
Posted by: Max at April 5, 2008 04:04 AM
Damn typos i meant right! not write! I guess i need more sleep...
Posted by: Max at April 5, 2008 04:50 AM
With the socially authoritarian government we have here in the UK there is very good cause for paranoia even if you are not. by nature, usually prone to paranoia.
Societies disadvantaged have the most to fear . Increasingly the British government seeks to harass and frighten and demonise the mentally ill.
With the economic situation due to get worse we along with other disadvantaged groups will be further scapegoated and demonised.
There is much reason to be frightened and paranoid. The barbarians hold the keys to the kingdom and civilisation is going to hell in a hand basket.
Posted by: Tim at April 5, 2008 11:13 AM
Yes, we are the Jews of the 21st century... And oddly enough I am Jewish...
Posted by: Max at April 5, 2008 01:38 PM
I agree that this study is a pure waste. What this study reveals is a normal vigilant state of human mind that belongs to psychology instead of psychiatry. Paranoia symptoms in schizophrenics are fundamentally different with the normal vigilant state of human mind.
Posted by: JD05 at April 5, 2008 02:38 PM
Eh i don't think they are any different if you put someone next to a psychiatrist they will eventually find something wrong. Ontop of that most of them want to treat first and diagnose later so yah they fuck up their own protocol.
Posted by: Max at April 5, 2008 03:35 PM
Some psychologists and psychiatrists, especially from anti-psychiatry camp, believe that symptoms of schizophrenia are simply extreme versions of common thoughts and behaviors in society, and thus, assume that schizophrenia is not a true illness. This is the viewpoint that I do not agree with, although a small percentage of sz cases do belong to this as a result of misdiagnosis.
Paranoia symptoms in schizophrenics are fundamentally different with the normal vigilant state of human mind. The key difference is that paranoia symptoms in sz are influenced by experience of hallucination, especially when the person has no any insight of it. When a person hears voices commenting about what he is thinking and doing; when a person has a feeling of his thought is being broadcasted or controlled … then, it is very likely he will try to find who did this to him – is it the CIA or FBI (as they are the one most likely having such an ability)?; is it the man standing by the door (his cell phone might be a remote to control the implant in my brain)? …
In my view, the main problem for psychiatry is that they don't understand which symptom of sz is primary and which is secondary. Hallucination, for instance, is primary, while paranoia and delusions are secondary. So, if you can stop the voices (hallucination), paranoia and delusions are mostly gone at the same time.
Posted by: JD05 at April 6, 2008 06:40 PM
Well you know this might seem basic to you but everyone hallucinates(not usually when they are awake though), Its called dreaming. And what exactly is a vigilant mind? I hardly think anyone is vigilant these days, and could you define a vigilant mind somewhat more so the rest of us can understand?
Actually the paranoia usually comes from experienced, real events. If you see someone obsessing about having rabies all the time, maybe they might have been attacked by a dog when they where younger. All of it has to do with a confusion between short term and long term memory, its like the two fuse together and everything becomes incomprehensible to the person experiencing the psychosis. Everything that a human experiences is real, even dreams, so I find it hard for someone to profess a vigilant mind, when the general population is more violent and less stable then the supposed sick!
Posted by: Max at April 7, 2008 12:33 PM
Hi Max, you are definitely right by saying that "everyone hallucinates" in their dreams while asleep. This is a very important understanding of "dreaming = hallucinating". So, I'm sure you will agree to my view of "hallucinations in schizophrenia are nothing but waking dreams", right?
Now, the difference between you and me is how to interpret the finding above. You probably reasoned in the following way (let me know if I'm wrong):
Since dreaming = hallucinating (in sleep)
And, everybody dreams when sleep
Conclusion: hallucinating is a normal function of human, not an illness
The problem is your conclusion. To make it easy to understanding, let's use Cataplexy as an example. Cataplexy is a sudden loss of muscle tone that leads to feelings of weakness and a loss of voluntary muscle control. Attacks can occur at any time during the waking period. The loss of muscle tone during a cataplectic episode resembles the interruption of muscle activity that naturally occurs during REM sleep. So now we have:
Since muscle paralysis in REM sleep = loss of muscle tone (in Cataplexy)
And, everybody experiences muscle paralysis in REM sleep (if not, you have a REM sleep behavior disorder)
Conclusion: Cataplexy is not an illness
I'm sure you will reject this conclusion of Cataplexy because Cataplexy is obviously an illness. In the same thinking, although it is nothing wrong to hallucinate in our dreams, it is still not right to hallucinate when we are awake. So, schizophrenia is still an illness of brain (wrong timing, just like in the Cataplexy case).
Posted by: JD05 at April 7, 2008 07:05 PM
Eh we are talking about two different illnesses... Schizophrenia is not normally recognized by neuro-scientists, catalepsy is though. Infact my NeuroDoc said i was cured and that I did not have Schizophrenia, and my psychiatrist said the exact opposite, so you seem to be blurring the lines in an attempt to profess the existence of a vigilant mind.
Secondly schizophrenia is not a neuro-degenerative disease, its a chemical imbalance in the brain, and so are dreams. In fact dreams usually program the general behavior of a person's day. So when someone is hallucinating their minds are being programmed to think via their hallucinations, and it seems that the brain is doing the right task, whether the person dreaming is awake or not. Second catalepsy is predominately genetic and schizophrenia is not(now i am going to have every little undergraduate in genetics condemn me, but feck them anyways!)
I do agree with you that the timing is off but sudden Paralysis is far off from sudden dreaming, infact it is far more disabling. And dreaming whilst awake might have evolutionary advantages such as the innate recognition of a dangerous situation. Which is seen in families of people who have this disorder, usually the parents are dysfunctional abusive child molesting pedophiles and eventually the victim/child breaks, they eventually believe that they are adopted, or that their parents are trying to kill them. Basically the mind is saying something like "run the hell away or these people will actually kill you, or make you worse!" (Remember I said usually, not always.)
Finally, the imagination is a powerful characteristic of intelligent animals. Why don't you do this little exercise with me?(read it first and then relive it in your mind. And if you can't visualize/hallucinate this then your brain might not be functioning correctly at all! :P)
Close your eyes and imagine that you are sitting on a beach. The sun is radiating warm waves of light. The sea is clear and tranquil, beautiful people are roaming naked, and a barmaid has just given you a strawberry smoothie. You place the smoothie in your hand it feels cold, and your bring it towards your lips, the aroma from the smoothie fills your nose, you now feel lightheaded, and
any worry is light years away. You drink the smoothie and the cool liquid pours down your throat, you believe that this is the closest you will ever get to heaven.
Now did you not hallucinate and visualize this little event whilst you were awake, i think the idea that this little illness was ever consider an illness led people to take extreme measures in treating it. I would be more afraid of the people who classify, as if their minds where programmed by a google technician, then someone who can actually reason as a naturalist.
Posted by: Max at April 8, 2008 09:19 AM
Usually paranoid thoughts/behaviors will come from isolation, an out of touch with reality experience. Sure one could carry these thoughts in public. But if one is carrying such paranoid thoughts they would tend to be guarded and prompt to do reality testing.
I think virtual reality is just a misunderstanding of a thoughts disorder that is hard to control or shut down.
Posted by: J D at April 8, 2008 09:44 AM
"You can't get a manic on a subway line," "The doctor don't like it says your waisting your time." "But everybody wants some..I want some to. Van Halen, Woman and Children First. HE HE
Posted by: J at April 8, 2008 03:12 PM
Hi Max, when you say schizophrenia is "a chemical imbalance in the brain", do you know that you are actually referring the imbalance of brain neuron transmitters?
Also, your example of "close your eyes and imagine that ..." is not an example of hallucination. It is called imagination (or fantasy, or day-dreaming). In imagining process, you have the full control of what you want to visualize and your brain doesn't perceive the imagines as if they are coming from any external sensory. So, imagination is a process of controlled thinking.
Hallucination, however, is a total different story. It is perceived as if they come from external sensory and you don't have the full control of what your brain will perceive. You can only influence the storyline in some way, just like in your dream while asleep.
Posted by: JD05 at April 8, 2008 07:09 PM
Actually yes i do, or well i think i do because it seems that most of the researchers are still pondering about this particular area. First it was the dopamine hypothesis, then the serotonin and dopamine hypothesis, now there is the diabetes of the brain hypothesis so you tell me which one is the true theory?...
I just do not agree that schizophrenia is anywhere near an illness. You have no control over your dreams either. Secondly not every person who experiences hallucinations believe that they are external what so ever.
You find that a large majority will tend to believe it but you will find a few odd people who are suffering from a psychosis to be very friggin aware of what is going on. When i first hallucinated i thought oh feck some fecking lunatic doctor is going to diagnose me as one of those? Was that insight? I think so... was i aware i think yes. When you are still conscious you have the ability to make rational thoughts. And you know it is pretty reasonable to believe that
these hallucinations are coming from an external source cause they are "alien" or unusual to the person who is experiencing this perceptional changes. It's only the psychiatrist that has an agenda(keeping the lay people at ease) would even consider saying that a person who is dreaming whilst awake is not aware of his illness. In fact its almost a catch twenty two situation for the patient.
Secondly day dreaming is very much akin to hallucinating, the same areas of the brain are used, and the evolution of day dreaming or even dreaming led into waking dreams, and human intelligence, which literally sprang forth from nowhere not a controlled experiment or a controlling entity and certainly not a vigilant mind.
Also i find that the imagination has nothing to do with controlled thinking some of the best art pieces, music, even equations literally appeared out of no where, much to the amazement of their inventors or discoverers.
Posted by: Max at April 9, 2008 09:26 AM
Hi Max, the saying that "schizophrenia is a chemical imbalance in the brain" is only a theory (hypothesis, assumption, belief, opinion, or best guess) whatever you like to name it. The truth is scientists have not yet found the root cause. No one knows which chemical (or neurotransmitter) is imbalance or if any.
Personally, I don't think the dopamine theory of schizophrenia is right, as sleep study revealed that brain dopamine level is actually almost the same through out the waking state, Non-REM sleep and REM sleep when dream occurs.
Posted by: JD05 at April 9, 2008 04:25 PM
Yah they can never really clarify these things. To be honest most of this type of research on this website has lots of striking similarities with ones that where done on homosexuals when that sexual persuasion was considered a disorder. So yah I find it very frustrating that researchers are even using Kraeplin's name, etc...
Posted by: Max at April 10, 2008 07:51 AM
Are those researchers MORONS? The woman who is suspicious of men on the subway is PARANOID?! Try logical! Try talking to women about how common sexual harassment and assault is on the subway! God, the public's blind eye toward ubiquitous misogyny and sexist harassment is infuriating.
Posted by: Sexism at its finest at April 21, 2008 08:50 PM